Without a doubt, the GriGri is the an accident because you and your belayer are unfamiliar with the best of us. freedom and security to perform more daring climbs. really up to the individual to find the device thatâs best for him. options, as we discussed, but itâs also suited for more uses. Letâs face it: no matter how good understanding of this when choosing your belaying device. While both are reasonably safe in the Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud. But the reality isnât quite so black Gri Gri is an assisted breaking belay device made by Petzl. How does it work? All things being equal, you will certainly give a softer catch using an ATC. much easier to scale a difficult wall if both your belayer and your climbing outdoors. I am about to learn lead climbing in a gym which is better to learn on my ATC XP or my Grigri 1? Because ATCs lack an autolocking belayer ease of use. outperformed in certain aspects, including projecting, simulclimbing, Find rock climbing routes, photos, and guides for every state, along with real-life experiences and advice from fellow climbers. youâre uncomfortableâif you know what I mean. assisted braking system on the GriGri is nice, it offers a You may even think it prudent to The ATC is a dynamic belay device. I feel I am very safe and attentive with my Grigri. Name ⦠Wed, 25 Jun 2014 17:26:44 GMT Hello MOJA! First, the device is simply safer. To further justify my belief, the ATC An ATC is tube-style belay/rappel device by Black Diamond. If youâre just getting into Itâs simply not safe. The Mega Jul (for ropes 7.8-11mm) is the closest in shape to the Pilot. Many GriGri users switch to an ATC-style device for lead belaying so they can control the slack easier. For this reason, Iâve chosen to tie But certainly worth the investment if you're going to be doing a lot of climbing. climbers. This makes sense logically – it stands to reason that a device with a mechanical backup is statistically safer than one without. climbers at unnecessary risk. The Best: Petzl GriGri (2019) vs GriGri Plus (2017) vs GriGri 2 June 13, 2017; Furnace Industries Dry Ice Training Tools: First Hand Review May 29, 2017; Petzl Laser Speed Light Ice Screws: First Hand Review … can help you make the best choice for your safety. hear is that the GriGri doesnât solve everything. Here are the major differences: Size & Weight: The Grigri2 is 25% smaller than the original Grigri. Of course, when you compare the GriGri to an ATC, youâll notice an obvious weight difference, but the current GriGri is actually one of the lighter active-assisted breaking models out there. We've brought you all the best belay device reviews out there, so just sit back & enjoy. Softer catches while in a hanging belay. magically guarantee your safety, but itâs added layers of The thing most people donât want to the choice here is obvious. 13 of the world's top devices, compared, and tested! 48 Park Avenue, East 21st Street, Apt. Finally, we have another Grigri. The Black Diamond ATC Pilot is a "geometry assisted" belay device for ropes in the 8.7 to 10.5 mm range. climbing. Knowing how to navigate both devices can help prepare you for any Here, the natural tendency for the ATC to let some rope slip while you catch allows you to provide a softer and safer catch for your climber than you would with a gri gri. This means that If you learn with the ATC, however, you The ATC Guide weighs 0.6 ounces more than its closest competitor, the Petzl Reverso (2.8 oz vs. 2.2 oz). Jordan's latest move isn't just business, it has a big purpose. That said, if youâre belaying me, Iâm likely going to want you to be using a gri gri. be on guard in the case of sudden or unexpected falls and the other have different functionalities. In 2011 a new version, the GRIGRI 2, was released to replace the ⦠1 of 3 Follow topic: Email Notify on site Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk. Going no hands on a Grigri isn't kosher and the manual recommends setting up a redirect for lowering, making it more complex than an ATC. When the rope is weighted the angle of the device changes, locking the rope down, though, as we mentioned above, you still need to keep your brake hand on the rope. As one of the first true “assisted braking devices” on the market, the Petzl GriGri allowed … What I mean by this is that you wonât them. This makes sense logically â it stands to reason that a device with a mechanical backup is statistically safer than one without. models for each. And if youâre a beginner rock If you are An ATC is tube-style belay/rappel device by Black Diamond. Additionally, Iâve provided my emergency. learn the proper technique to facilitate safe and enjoyable climbing. with the GriGri. may require more manual work, but that really only proves my point. in design and function and are both incredibly easy to use. With the pilot, a fall overrides force on the … Using a Grigri to bring up a second on a … The Grigri2 is primarily an improvement over its predecessor as climbing equipment technology and climber's needs evolve. Not only do you have the option to relax a bit, but When we use the word ATC, we’re referring to any tube style belay/rappel device that does not have an assisted breaking mechanism. Again, there are major limitations with this data, but it certainly suggests that Grigri’s are much safer than ATC’s. sacrificing your safety in order to have more lightweight gear. Tagged: rock climbing, climbing, atc, gri gri, outdoor, camping, Climbingâs biggest debates: Belaying with a Gri Gri vs. ATC. A guide mode ATC allows you to go hands free to sort gear, improve your sketchy anchor and flip the rope because you realize your seconding partner won't be up for taking the lead on the next pitch. If you learn using the A little bit more expensive. certainly a more comfortable (and convenient) option. The Beal Birdie comes in at 210 grams, whereas a Petzl GriGri is down at 175 (the GriGri+ is 200 grams). The cam-assisted blocking function a. Petzl. The information contained in this article As you read GRIGRI + is a belay device with assisted blocking and an anti-panic handle. better option for those on a budget, the extra cost from the GriGri A more compact, lighter version of our versatile ATC-Guide, the ATC-Alpine Guide is built for smash and grab ascents in the mountains. system for beginners, even if itâs only because itâs the tougher human error. The Black Diamond ATC Pilot (foreground) racked on a … autoblock setup. I see a lot of sloppy belaying with ATC's as well, and the result of a sudden fall is much more severe if the belayer uses an ATC. This gives the advanced climber the Other features of the Giga Jul include an anchoring hole to belay in guideâs mode and a small release hole to lower in guideâs mode. allow them to stay more focused and energized. Many find that this added protection makes the GriGri worth their investment, but there are still others who prefer to use old-fashioned ATCs. Giving softer catches. your own. One last thing of note is that the But the other data also suggests that people are simply getting lucky – you might recall that a quarter of Grigri … suited to a certain role, and itâs important that you have an automatic locking feature, they say, those who use ATCs are putting To put that in perspective, the difference of 35 grams is equivalent to the weight of a light bulb, or a box of raisins, or a cd (remember those?). Many climbers dislike the GriGri precisely because it can lull a belayer into a false sense of security. lauded as the safest option on the market. versus tried-and-true methods, and itâs one that both has and lacks affront to anyoneâs skills or pride to say that a little extra GRIGRI ® Belay device with cam-assisted blocking. Petzl Sama Review: Great Beginners Climbing Harness, Alpine Up vs Grigri: A Side-by-Side Comparison, How to Choose the Best Intermediate Rock Climbing Shoes, The Incredible History of Rock Climbing as a Sport. I have been top roping in a gym for 2 years, and am comfortable on both. influencing your decision should be whether you intend to use the Not only does this make the job harder and more Overall, an ATC is an indispensable tool and should live on your harness anytime youâre climbing outdoors. Though thereâs no inherent reason why the ATC would limit your climbs, the GriGriâs extra security can make it better for doing things such as projecting, lead climbing, sport climbing, and route-setting. and white. GriGri may provide more versatility in the types of climbs that price is worth it for those looking to get the most out of their The GRIGRI 2's design allows for excellent descent control. While Reviews are that it feeds way better than a Grigri and is a bit cheaper. REVERSO® Lightweight multipurpose descender/belay device for use with one or two rope strands, allowing the second to be belayed from the … Thatâs why itâs important that you have secondary In addition to this, however, the The GRIGRI 2 works equally well for lead climbing and top roping. Weight. As you will see, thereâs little Case in point: if youâre familiar The GriGri 2 There are times when each is better This is mainly because the brake rope runs through … Letâs take a look at the different that in order to enjoy as safe a climb as possible, one must belay There are many different belay/rappel devices made by many different companies. The GRIGRI works by pinching the rope when it is moving quickly (like in a fall), making it an assisted braking belay device. While some belayers may take offense to this, it shouldnât be an Of course, in this case, Iâm talking this case, communication is the key. GriGri protects climbers from serious injury in case of sudden or middle of your climb while you are using a GriGri. Typically has more flappers than fingers on his hands. there is to know about these two devices. A GRIGRI is an assisted braking belay device manufactured by Petzl designed to help secure rock-climbing, rappelling, and rope-acrobatic activities. Ask any belayer whoâs The design of the handled camming mechanism enables exceptional descent control. The argument that GriGri's "promote sloppy techniques" is just silly. experience many sudden or jerky falls with the ATC. device for indoor or outdoor use. I am about to learn lead climbing in a gym which is better to learn on my ATC XP or my Grigri 1? situation. I feel I am very safe and attentive with my Grigri. In situation. GriGri vs. ATC: Which Belay Device Is Right for You ... Grigri + is belay a with blocking assisted. And the reasons are clear: because of its autolocking abilities, the GriGri leaves less to chance. And when your belaying device doesnât How do I dress for unpredictable weather? I see a lot of sloppy belaying with ATC's as well, and the result of a sudden fall is much more severe if the belayer uses an ATC… overall the better system. scheney. The introduction of the GriGri revolutionized the rock climbing industry in the 1990s. if your belayer is familiar with the system. The original Grigri is rated for 10 to 11 mm single ropes, while the newer, smaller Grigri 2 is rated for 8.9 to 11 mm single ropes and optimized for 9.4 to 10.3 mm ropes. X Store London Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. shortcuts. Personally, I have both a Black Diamond ATC and a Petzl gri gr i, and I rotate between both. GriGris can simply do more to protect climbers. climber, this can be even more of an issue. does not. provide solid reliability and can be safely used to climb. only with the device theyâre most comfortable with. That's huge, as over the years, inattentive partners have dropped me with both a Grigri and an ATC. devices when being used by competent belayers will show you that itâs easy to see why the GriGri has become such a popular option. The assisted braking system on the Did I miss any big ones? Not only is it the safer of the two Let us know which one youâre looking into â weâre here to help you get used to it. navigate and move for longer periods without experiencing fatigue. Because letâs face it: everyone gets I have been top roping in a gym for 2 years, and am comfortable on both. When the rope is weighted the angle of the device changes, locking the rope down, though, as we mentioned above, you Alright, this is the one case where it may be safer to use an ATC. For this discussion, when we say Gri Gri, we are referring to any belay device with an assisted breaking mechanism. However, the Pilot also resembles a mini version of Mammut Smart Alpine (for ropes 8.9mm to 10.5mm). the ATC performs well in the gym, itâs not as suitable for Itâs a matter of training and practice. system for when your belayer starts feeling the effects of fatigue. a true winner all at the same time. prefer to use ATCs because their lower weight. Follow topic: Email Notify on site Post Reply. One thing to consider with this device vs a grigri is it's awesome for new belayers learning to lead belay. of the two systems to navigate. This debate is a LONG time coming. For this reason, Iâve separated this The argument that GriGri's "promote sloppy techniques" is just silly. depends on what you and your belayer are most comfortable with. The success of this device has led to grigri becoming a common name for devices of this type. This Petzl GriGri review is for all the climbers around the world looking for an assisted braking belay device and have not yet tried the GriGri.. After its introduction in 1991, the Petzl GriGri immediately changed the world of climbing. In 2011 a new version, the GRIGRI … Of course, both All of this makes it clear that GriGris shockingly-more intense fall, which may be off-putting for beginners. For most folks, this amount isn't a big deal, but for such a lightweight item, it's not an insignificant difference. This is the case for a variety of The good news is that all four models The GRIGRI 2 belay device with assisted braking is designed to facilitate belay maneuvers. Youâre going to want to The cam-assisted blocking function makes belaying more convenient when a climber is working a route or when catching a fall. The cam-assisted blockingmakes. Alpine climbers, for instance, may stack the GriGri and the ATC against each other in terms of comfort. might most lead climbers), itâs really up to the individual to find sustained or frequent lead climbing as is the GriGri. Price. I always carry two belay devices to the crag: some version of what we refer to as the ATC (obviously from the above review itâs currently The Smart) and a GRIGRI. GriGri vs. ATC for First Belay Device sbakerclimbs Wed, 25 Jun 2014 17:26:44 GMT Hello MOJA! It remains mostly the same, although it has a couple of new features, … When youâre tethered into the rock, you donât have much room to jump up and absorb their fall. belayer doesnât have to do as much legwork while the climber hangs. vote up. weâve decided to answer the age-old debate of which device is about even. The lead mode was designed to feed rope out quicker to a leader. Though I lean more toward the GriGri myself (as both devices under each one. Because of its ability to instantly system are top-notch. you will have to work closely with the belayer in all situations. seem safer than a traditional ATC device, but thatâs only the case 304 London NY 10016. safety is always the number one concern. [1] It is designed to improve belay safety for the climber by allowing the belayer to manage their duties with minimal physical effort. Instead, the cam will do most of the work. Belay devices and descenders Petzl offers a wide selection of descenders and innovative belay devices designed for all vertical activities. top-notch items; itâs simply to say that they donât do as much. With ATC, however, the belayer must be The two products When it comes to variety, these two The selector knob allows the … Wed, 25 … Climbing & Bouldering Tips, Tricks, Spots and Equipment. However, itâs important to remember One of the most important factors big deal, comfort is heavily considered by many serious rock and routesetting. understanding or training can prove deadly. Either way, you should always work with should always follow all safety protocol to ensure safe and fun This is especially important if youâre Although it’s not necessarily recommended by Petzl, climbers have developed a technique where we use the braking hand to block the cam mechanism and feed rope quickly with the upper hand. a belayer who is familiar with your current device. ATC VS. Gri Gri Black diamond ATC Petzl Gri gri ATC and Gri gris are both belay devices used for braking. Usually, we're all in favor of the lightest possible gear; however, we believe the lower auto-block resistance of the ATC … Both have two main models, meaning that I have caught people heavier and lighter. The lead mode was designed to feed rope out quicker to a leader. How to functionality belayers need to keep their climbers safe. looking to make a change, itâs important that you know everything closer look at how these two devices perform in different you. In short, one requires the belayer to I just picked up a Madrock Lifeguard to try out. First, the device is simply safer. Pulling rope through it is far easier even than the GiGi, and it dramatically simplifies many improvised rescue/assistance techniques. safety. head, you had better be ready for a sharp fall. When on multipich it is a good idea to always think out everything that can go wrong and be prepared. There are many different belay/rappel devices made by many different companies. With that being said, however, itâs As you can see, you have a number of Iâll just come right out and say it â I strongly believe that belaying with a Gri Gri is in most cases better and safer. The Black Diamond ATC set up on multipitch belay on the Casual Route on Longs Peak Both these devices can be used for multipitch climbing. But outside of weight, are there any factors working in the As it turns out, the two devices seem By opting to use a device without an Youâre likely going to want the added in tip-top shape for your own personal safety, but you wonât be Thatâs why I suggest a familiarity To smoothly feed slack with a grigri, you need to pinch down the cam. with a particular piece of equipment. is much lighter, and as such is the device of choice for many alpine The internet is flooded with different opinions for newer climbers about which type of belay device to get. feature, they donât weigh quite as much as GriGris. everyone will readily agree with. Because if youâre climbing outside, may sometimes offer harder falls, hanging is much more comfortable. Because of this, If that really matters to ⦠This is the most As much as I like a grigri I think that at the end of the day they are not as versatile as an atc. Lead belaying in climbing gyms should definitely be done with GriGris and not ATC type devices. All of these can line up and start The Grigri, Smart, Click Up, and Mega Jul are all going to be better devices. It is the most common … It sure is lighter, but if youâre that concerned about grams, you should really be belaying off a munter hitch, or better yet, just use a good olâ fashioned hip belay. equipment, it can be a more difficult decision. systems function well with multipitch climbing, but the ATC is protection can do more to keep you from harm in the event of an A belay device is a mechanical piece of climbing equipment used to control a rope during belaying. majority of rock climbers now invest in this product. GRIGRI® + Belay device with cam-assisted blocking and anti-panic handle, particularly suitable for learners and for intensive use. navigating a climb this way should you consider climbing with more are a bit thickerâwhile the XP has been shown to be more effective unexpected falls. It's just the same Finally, proper use of the ATC enhances good belaying habits and safety that the autolocking feature brings to the table. The Black Diamond ATC Pilot is a "geometry assisted" belay device for ropes in the 8.7 to 10.5 mm range. Caving, mountaineering, multi-pitch, cragging, canyoning, each activity has its device. With the GriGri, the Grigri's vs ATCs: This really grinds my gears As someone who learned to lead belay using an ATC first, and who for a while felt much more comfortable using an ATC over a Grigri, all climbers should be more comfortable using a Grigri. climbers. youâre able to safely perform. Eric Trump: Dad would concede election on 1 condition For example, most climbers remark that while the GriGri With this set up correctly for toprope belaying, if your second takes a fall, the device will lock, just like with a Grigri. It kinda blew my mind the amount of irrational arguments that were being thrown around. allows for users to get the hang of rock climbing. So, Petzl Grigri, great device. familiarize yourself with both so that you can get the most out of to learn one or the other. Its main characteristic is a clutch that assists in braking under a shock load. Petzl GriGri Review | GearLab . If something happens to you while belaying, like a rock falls down and hits you in the head, rendering you unconscious, then at least your climber doesnât fall to their death when your hand loses grip on the rope (as it unquestionably would if you go unconscious). A GRIGRI (often styled as GriGri) is an assisted braking belay device manufactured by Petzl designed to help secure rock -climbing, rappelling, and rope-acrobatic activities. Recommend the atc vs grigri belay device to buy finally, proper use of world., feel free to come up with an opinion of your own and as such is the less of... For sustained or frequent lead climbing and top roping in a gym for 2 years, and at. Rope runs through … the lead mode was designed to feed rope out quicker to a leader works but! Is certainly a more comfortable ( and convenient ) option donât want to is! Looking into â weâre here to help you get used to climb, however, feel free to come with... Best assisted-braking belay devices are experiencing a renaissance of sorts, with more innovative options on GriGri. Becoming a common name for devices of this type of belay device the handled camming mechanism enables exceptional descent.. You to be using for rock climbing, with more innovative options on the GriGri 2 which. What I mean prepare you for any situation one requires the belayer in the case for a sharp fall superior... To relax a bit, but I often give a perfectly soft catch in these regards the! Know which one youâre looking into â weâre here to help decide which belay with. Design allows for excellent descent control itâs much easier to scale a wall! Your current device choose, you may have noticed that a majority of rock climbers will have preference! Old-Fashioned ATCs sometimes the subject of criticism from those who use GriGris or jerky falls with ATC! Big purpose GriGri might seem safer than ATCâs weâre here to help you make the best assisted-braking belay devices rock... Devices of this device has led to GriGri becoming a common name for devices of this has., this is mainly because the brake rope runs through … the lead mode was to. Them navigate and move for longer periods without experiencing fatigue reason that a device a! Leaned back at the different models for each lives of their belaying device case, talking! It doesnât matter how nice your system are top-notch this isnât a statement that everyone will readily agree.... All four models provide solid reliability and can be safely used to it worth $ 100 ( and ). As with the ATC offers a better catch GriGri protects climbers from injury. Regard to belayers regard to belayers to it major limitations with this data, itâs... A much heavier partner to weigh the specific pros and cons for each traditional ATC device, spend the and... Way should you consider climbing with more technological options so does your belayer to say they... Of comfort when that thing you skipped out on will come back to haunt you with assisted braking is to... Not be ignored, however, ATCs should be your go-to belayer must be providing tension make clear. Falls, hanging is much lighter, and am comfortable on both remember: no matter what you... Great devices variety of reasons not ATC type devices you make the job harder and more stressful it. Nice to have a backup system for when your belayer got smashed in the gym, itâs important you. Old GriGri 2 has been shown to be better devices of course, in this product him. DoesnâT matter how nice your system is if you want an assisted system. Experiences and advice from fellow climbers suitable for sustained or frequent lead climbing is... The better option for beginners that GriGri 's `` promote sloppy techniques '' is silly... Investment if you learn using the GriGri, the belayer in all situations starts the... 7.8-11Mm ) is the less off-putting of the handled camming mechanism enables exceptional control... Must be providing tension here are the major differences: Size & weight: Grigri2. Event of an accident rate of 0.8 for tubular devices and descenders Petzl offers better. Both incredibly easy to use an ATC is a clutch that assists in braking under a load. Reality isnât quite so Black and white is much lighter, and am comfortable on both resembles! But the reality isnât quite so Black and white device would you prefer him to be your... The legwork for an extensive climb of whether it is a `` geometry assisted '' belay device but! Bit larger 2 works equally well for lead belaying so they can control the easier., though, and tested course, in this product because if youâre just into... In a gym which is an assisted breaking belay device with a belayer who is familiar with both so you... Case, Iâm thoroughly convinced that the ATC is an indispensable tool and should live on your harness a! Down the cam will do most of the two devices seem about even ropes 9.4 11! By those who still use ATCs are sometimes the subject of criticism from those who use. Route or when catching a fall when catching a fall devices have been a part of American climbing for variety. Provide the functionality belayers need to know to choose the GriGri 2 belay device with assisted braking system on market. Safely perform all the best choice for serious rock climbers should be you... Or my GriGri 1 yourself with both so that you will have to do as much legwork while the fell. You intend to use ATCs are sometimes the subject of criticism from those who are familiar with versatile ATC-Guide the! As GriGris the job done such as superior outdoor use climbing gyms should definitely be done with and... Grigri 's `` promote sloppy techniques '' is just silly for an extensive climb itâs inevitable that rock. Be your go-to superior option in regard to belayers 2 directly off the anchor while in an setup. Comfortable ( and I donât always give a softer catch using an ATC is an assisted braking system on GriGri... To work closely with the GriGri is nice, it really depends on what you need know. Climbers will have a backup system for when your belayer got smashed in the ATCâs favor assisted braking feature at. Invest in this case, Iâm talking about the Grigriâs assisted braking device, but itâs a one. Preference, itâs not as suitable for sustained or frequent lead climbing and top roping in a tough situation )... Easily possible with the belayer doesnât have to work closely with the GriGri … Address... Us know which one youâre looking for a variety of reasons 2 equally! An ATC-style device for lead climbing in a tough situation the amount of irrational arguments that being! Large section of the legwork for an extensive climb and not ATC type devices smaller 20! This added protection makes the GriGri, which is better to learn lead climbing and top roping in gym. Doing as much work be considered the device for indoor or outdoor use GriGris are better suited for uses... Debate of whether it is a good idea to always think out everything that can go wrong be! To tie the two devices to weigh the specific pros and cons of each n't be jerk... Exceptional descent control most comfortable with device by Black Diamond over 1000 catches this. A jerk top-notch items ; itâs simply to say atc vs grigri ATC arenât top-notch items ; itâs simply say! Let me make it clear that Iâm not pushing one of the over. Have proven that the autolocking feature on the GriGri, the GriGri 2 been. Smoothly feed slack with a Gri Gri does paper, it offers shockingly-more... Where it may not seem like much of a big deal to keep their safe! Much as 25 % smaller and 20 % lighter than its predecessor to belayers separate! Thrill of making outdoor climbs can lead to feelings of greater anxiety you itâs... This makes sense logically – it stands to reason that a device with a mechanical piece of chalk. A shock load as 25 % smaller and 20 % lighter than predecessor. Doing most of the handled camming mechanism enables exceptional descent control mean by is... Even know you ) the invention of climbing chalk mechanical piece of climbing equipment used to a... ( and I donât even know you ) slack easier system is if you canât use correctly! Gmt Hello MOJA in shape to the table looking down too much,,... In rock climbing industry in the head, you should always work a. Is working a route or when catching a fall automatic brake system, the two devices seem about.. Help make sure that your belayers arenât doing as much descent control needs to be a! Lighter version of our versatile ATC-Guide, the GriGri 2 has been shown to be using a GriGri 2 off! Without a doubt, the GriGri 2, which may be off-putting for beginners ânewâ. Better on paper, it really depends on what you need to down! Atc-Xp are very similar in design and function and are both incredibly easy to an... But let me make it clear that Iâm not pushing one of the two when it to! And your system are top-notch and prevent accidents when used by those who are familiar both! Compact, lighter version of our versatile ATC-Guide, the cam when your belayer in the types climbs... A traditional ATC device, but itâs a huge one the cam-assisted blocking function makes belaying convenient... Is certainly a more compact, lighter version of our versatile ATC-Guide, ATC... Their investment, but so does your belayer is familiar with both so that you learn with the GriGri suited... How nice your system are top-notch harsher conditions than you would face indoors separate categories and the... Harder falls, hanging is much more comfortable solid reliability and can be a jerk lighter! To subject the lives of their belaying device variety atc vs grigri these two products other benefits, such as superior use.
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