A supercharger can work right off the bat, whereas many types of turbos require time to “spool up” and provide boost. It would take a lot of work to get everything working together correctly. I'd put the extra money in suspension mods to keep it on the road with that kind of power. But in common day usage, Supercharging is the word used to refer to a mechanically driven compressor, and Turbocharging is the word used to refer to an exhaust-gas driven compressor (technically, Turbos are actually “Turbo Superchargers”). I understand if some of you are laughing and thinking, "just buy an S model mini". If I run them both at 7 psi the turbo seems to have … Supercharging provides charge motion on the intake side, independently of piston motion. If your supercharger blows, you can throw on a regular belt bypassing the supercharger pulley and you can drive home normally. To make a motor that lasts you would need to increase the strength of the bottom end (crankshaft, rods, and pistons) and use special "blower" pistons that have a very low compression ratio. The SC is hard to beat! However, if you are able to walk away with a better understanding of the challenges posed by the various engine configurations, you’re a leg up on a majority of enthusiasts. Superchargers and turbochargers each have their own unique sets of advantages and disadvantages. The response is immediate, and the operating temperatures are generally cooler. You can indeed limp home but not like a supercharged. I wonder if this would be worthwhile with a tourquey V8 engine like the 302 -- the supercharger alone would be more than enough to move your Mustang along, considering how light the '65 body is. This also reduces the notable stress on the components in the lower RPM range while assisting with traction. By adding exhaust duration, opening up the lobe separation angle, and adding intake duration, not only is cylinder pressure lowered but the engine’s powerband is raised. So, whether the job calls for new Dodge Ram turbochargers or a new Chevy Silverado turbocharger, you can count on AutoZone to provide you with the right products. Two Technologies with One Purpose I have 14 PC turbo and 17' PC SC. In fact, I think there were. VW has been showing examples at autoshows, Sporty lightweight robust car recommendation. ... a turbo can be … For the uninitiated, both a turbocharger and a supercharger serve to give your vehicle a performance boost so you get more power when they’re installed in the engine. Sure it's possible. On the exhaust side, you have an significantly increased mass of exhaust gasses (over a naturally aspirated combination) needing to get out of the engine. All rights reserved. No, unfortunately, you can’t turn on and off a supercharger on a jet ski. Superchargers can be driven by a driveshaft or gear drive but in automotive applications are mostly driven by an accessory belt. Always interested in how things work, he enjoys sharing his passion for automotive technology with the reader. The SC runs very consistent and has very snappy bottom end but it's hard on fuel especially if you have to run a trail for a ways to the Backcountry compared to the turbo. The B-17 used this very configuration in order to provide the power it needed to reach altitude. © 2017 Power Automedia. We promise not to use your email address for anything but exclusive updates from the Power Automedia Network. Optimizing a camshaft for a naturally aspirated engine really comes down to making sure it takes full advantage of your intake and exhaust runner length, which is known as wave tuning. A turbo is powered by exhaust gases, and a supercharger (blower) is belt driven, but the end result is pressure at the manifold, instead of vacuum. You could beat a small turbo's peak power AND low-end response with a supercharger. While it's certainly possible to strap a supercharger in line with a turbo, I can't fathom that it would ever be worth doing. IIRC the engine bay on a 65 mustang is fairly tight for a turbo setup, there is lots of exhaust plumbing and not a … Step 1 Determine where you want your power-band to be. The increased intake charge density requires enhanced exhaust scavenging in order to draw in the heavier charge. Because nitrous has its largest gains low in the RPM range, the common school of thought is that the camshaft profile should help balance the powerband. However, its increased density means that there is still significantly more charge mass entering the cylinder per unit of time, so increased intake duration isn’t needed. This additional intake air can be supplied by either a turbocharger or a supercharger. Turbochargers are a unique animal which have confused many over the past decades. The key difference between the two is the way they get their power and variations in efficiency. But what power there is, is immediately … The turbo and supercharger both increase horsepower by cramming more fuel/air mixture in your cylinders, effectively increasing compression. To get from the supercharger outlet to the intercooler you must go behind the sway bar, over to the right side of the radiator, and then up and over the front part of the skid bar assembly. The density of the intake charge is increased with the addition of gaseous nitrous oxide, as well as an additional fuel charge. Bottom line it's a cost thing. AutoGator has quality used turbochargers and superchargers for cars and trucks. The general rule of thumb is that if you are injecting less than 20-percent of the engine’s naturally aspirated horsepower, the camshaft profile should be treated as a naturally aspirated combination. A heavy nitrous application, there are a number of unique considerations. So long as you have the know-how and all the right tools, you can have one of these ultimate bolt-ons for yourself. However, many jet ski models offer different modes (like ECO mode) to cut the engine power and reduce fuel consumption. All rights reserved. “We can use piston motion and some wave tuning to get charge motion at a lower velocity and with less valve timing,” Godbold explains. The combination of the negative pressure wave in the chamber and a positive wave in the runner can result in a net pressure drop across the valve at intake opening, even though the piston is still going up towards TDC.”. Greg has spent fifteen years and counting in automotive publishing, with most of his work having a very technical focus. Nowadays, increased turbine efficiencies have brought the pressure ratio for turbocharged combinations much closer to a 1:1 pressure differential, similar to that of a naturally aspirated engine, just with more absolute pressure on each side of the equation. However, too-tight of a lobe separation angle in a supercharged application can result in blow-through during the valve overlap period. Some key advantages turbochargers have over superchargers are better fuel economy and a longer lifespan. Then you feel a noticeable kick in the pants as the power hits. While not having any outside influences may seem to make it the simplest configuration, in fact, it is one of the more complicated problems to find a solution for. However, thanks to companies like Comp Cams, who prefer to see its customers educated, and enjoy sharing immense knowledge, videos like this one can be brought to you. We'll send you raw engine tech articles, news, features, and videos every week from EngineLabs. A small supercharger feeds boost into the engine as the large turbo spools. Build your own custom newsletter with the content you love from EngineLabs, directly to your inbox, absolutely FREE! I figured someone had to do an R50 Supercharger kit conversion. Turbos have amazing efficiency because it takes no horsepower to make power as a supercharger needs to use power to make power. A supercharger is an air compressor that increases the pressure or density of air inside the combustion engine. You can also run a narrower lobe separation angle than other forms of forced induction, but has to be weighed against the potential to have “blow through” during valve overlap. Supercharging provides charge motion on the intake side, independently of piston motion. On the intake side, you have standard atmospheric pressure, but a heavier, denser intake charge that takes more effort to draw in. I only want to add an intercooler on my car. By maximizing runner lengths to camshaft specifications, huge increases in volumetric efficiencies can be attained, with greater than 100-percent efficiency possible in a truly well-developed combination. Most automatics are designed to slip when they shift, which makes for a nice smooth ride but increases wear on the tranny, and the shift kit makes them a bit firmer. The disadvantage of superchargers is that they are connected to the crankshaft all the time, and can absorb more than 25 percent of the engine’s power. Neat trick, even though it wasn't that awesome. It was done successfully on an Acura Integra a few years back, but it took thousands of dollars and really didn't prove to be worth the trouble. Conventional wisdom used to be that a wide lobe separation angle was required, and older, inefficient turbochargers could have pressure differentials which were higher on the exhaust side than the intake side, even at max boost. “In a normally-aspirated engine with headers, the exhaust pulse from the exhaust opening travels out as a positive wave. i marked best answers on the ones that will most probably directly relate to me, but everyone who commented deserves a shout out, i now have tons of information to sift through. actually you can have a supercharger and and a turbocharger in at the same time it would just have to be custume. However, if you are looking to build a custom supercharged setup and need to know which of our superchargers is right for you, we have a program that, given all … © 2020 Power Automedia. Having both installed means you can use either one depending on the climate. It wouldn't be a first turbo/super project and you won't have expertise to fall back on when things, inevitably, don't work correctly. Turning on these modes, you can be ensured that you ride your jet ski at “best cruise speed” which leads to the best fuel economy and gas mileage. Thanks for the responses everyone. I have a Supercharger at home and am curious to know if it'll fit in my R50 Cooper base, and what it would take. Mark helpful. Manufacturers have made great strides over the years to reduce lag, but it’s still there. Recommended to you based on your activity and what's popular • Feedback Others use 90-degree rubber hoses connected with aluminum tubes. You'd make less power at a given level of boost than a turbocharger, but get more top-end than a small turbo without the lag of the big turbo (but not quite the big turbo's top end). Both the supercharger and turbo are going to give you significant power increases because they draw additional air into the engine. Both are air compressors, but they operate and perform very differently. Any method of forced induction (and even Nitrous if you’re willing to blur the line a little) can be called “Supercharging”. 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While the intake side is pressurized at two or even three atmospheres, the exhaust pressure remains at one atmosphere. So, if you want instantaneous power all the time, a … As others have said twincharging has been done lots, both on cars and airplanes. Is it possible to put an intercooler without any turbo or supercharger with it. The biggest cause of this is due to the fact that turbos are run by the exhaust gases coming from the … The first configuration is by far the most common, and that is a naturally aspirated engine. It all depends on how much power you're looking to add and what transmission you have. 75 Report; Truebull answered 6 years ago There are many things you can do to that engine without spending the money installing a supercharger. Superchargers are well known as the "ultimate bolt-on". In short, no. Picking the right cam for use with a supercharger or turbo comes down to ensuring that the waste gases can get out of the motor as efficiently as the pressurized air goes into the motor. They can help point you towards the right camshaft profile, whether it’s on the shelf or a custom grind. More specifically, the pressure ratio is the key concern, and not surprisingly, all four configurations we’ll discuss are different from one another. A Guide To Ford V8 Engine Block Casting Numbers, 1952-1996, A Guide To Mopar V8 Cylinder Head And Block Casting Numbers, 2020 Product Showcase: ARP’s Ultra-Torque Assembly Lube, 2020 Product Showcase: Lunati Bets On Black With Black Magic Cams, 2020 Product Showcase: World’s CNC-Ported Merlin Big-Block Heads. A turbocharger and supercharger are both designed to pressurize the air and/or air fuel mixture, going into the intake manifold. Turbos are more tricky. The ability to optimize a camshaft for a specific combination is definitely something that only comes with a lot of education and experience, and that’s why it’s usually left to the camshaft professionals to sort out for the average person. A positive displacement supercharger sits on top of the intake manifold (typically), and makes peak pressure at low RPM's. Ask MetaFilter is a question and answer site that covers nearly any question on earth, where members help each other solve problems. This has been done on airplanes for years. You can also run a narrower lobe separation angle than other forms of forced induction, but has to be weighed against the potential to have “blow through” during valve overlap. Report. One thing with supercharged and turbocharged combinations, is that the heavily compressed intake charge loses velocity compared to a lighter, less-dense naturally aspirated charge. Just have to tweak the computer If you need the whole replacement turbo or supercharger, we have that too. Two, the subject matter itself is so extremely advanced, people far smarter can write books on the topic, and we’re limited to this single article for now. If you had like a turbo 300 or 400, you could buy a simple shift kit to help deal with the power. Mark helpful. However, on the exhaust side, with the increase in charge mass trying to escape the cylinder, additional duration helps reduce the pumping losses, especially with centrifugal superchargers that shine at higher engine-RPM. A Turbocharger can increase power and efficiency, but it suffers from Turbo lag. The supercharged vehicle delivers power at a faster rate and while traveling at lower RPMs. Turbochargers require more RPM to make peak boost, and the larger the turbo, the more exhaust it takes. With electric superchargers, this really can be an exclusive OR, but with most forced induction you can't shut off the blower so you're either using your super/turbo by itself or you… Generally speaking, superchargers are believed to boost the engine better than turbochargers. While we’ve been very general in our explanations, the reason for that is twofold. Only once the horsepower increases rise above 20-percent, would a nitrous-specific profile be recommended. The fact is, you should decide how much horsepower you want, then figure out the most efficient and reliable way to make it. Companies like Volvo have opted to use both a turbo and a supercharger in new vehicles. This was also popular on the later airliners before the turbine engine came to the fore. All posts copyright their original authors. Seems to me the reason you might want to do this is two-fold: by starting with the supercharger you elliminate the turbo lag, and when you switch from super to turbo you're using exhaust gases, rather than the engine to blow more air in. Regardless of what form of induction you are using, there are two major factors which need to be considered when determining the proper camshaft specifications: the pressure at the intake valve, and the pressure at the exhaust valve. Besides, that’s what the tech team at Comp Cams is for. Superchargers inline with a turbo are usually used help to broaden the pressure map of the turbo and provide boost at low rpms when using large, slow spooling turbos. Treating a turbocharged combination like a naturally aspirated one also allows an earlier exhaust opening, which reduces cylinder pressure by the time the intake valve opens, further increasing the engine’s efficiency. But where the turbo falls short is turbo lag. On a jeep, you can have lots of different setup options including a rear mounted turbo, etc etc. I would like to put an intercooler on my 323i, but, i don't like to put a turbo charger or supercharger. It pushes air into the engine, increasing its density and allowing the engine to have more oxygen-intake cycles. Firing Order Swaps: What’s Best For Your Engine? Obviously, no one is going to be able to spec out their own camshaft – let alone a forced-induction camshaft – after watching a five minute video and reading a single article. Right off the bat, you may think that a nitrous oxide application and naturally aspirated application are identical. Join 6,464 readers in helping fund MetaFilter. I've seen a 240 SX built as a supercharged turbo, though this example the man used it on an official Drift track. While the absolute pressures are greater than a naturally aspirated configuration, some of the same wave-tuning theories come into play. While the naturally aspirated combination may seem like the simplest camshaft to spec out, with a 1:1 pressure ratio, it’s deceptively simple. With a modern, efficient turbocharger, you’re approaching equal pressures on either side of the intake tract. Used Turbochargers and Superchargers For Sale. This is because of their more straightforward installation in comparison to other forced induction choices and the amount of horsepower they add to your build. A super charger can have slightly less power gain because it takes more horsepower to run the super charger. This delay is known as turbo lag. Why Do We Measure Engines Against The Power Of Horses? “At the same time, you want the intake runner length such that the negative pressure wave that happened at last intake opening has been reflected as a positive wave back to the backside of the intake valve at this intake opening. Cool the air after the supercharger (if you can that is, some designs you just cant) 3 people found this helpful. However, between constant advancements by camshaft designers and turbocharger manufacturers, we are in a golden age of turbocharger camshafts. Well, you can put more then one turbocharger on an engine (The veyron has 4, I think the ford GT has 2) so I suppose you could put one supercharger and one turbocharger in an engine. We will safeguard your e-mail and only send content you request. You indeed can supercharge and twin turbo a car, but a cold air intake is not in there. Max answered 2 weeks ago. Superchargers inline with a turbo are usually used help to broaden the pressure map of the turbo and provide boost at low rpms when using large, slow spooling turbos. We are a full service auto dismantler in Northern California and we can provide you with a quality replacement supercharger or turbocharger anywhere in … Ask MetaFilter is where thousands of life's little questions are answered. It would definitely be possible. When the latter is producing boost, the supercharger is bypassed and decoupled to reduce parasitic loss. With only piston motion to create charge motion, making sure that the camshaft compliments the intake and exhaust runner-lengths becomes crucial. Engine-driven superchargers are a unique animal, in that of all four combinations; they offer the highest pressure differential between the intake and exhaust sides. Because superchargers are providing a constant supply of compressed air to the engine, superchargers have a faster boost response, especially at low RPMs. With the positive pressure on the intake side, you aren’t reliant on piston motion to impart motion on the intake charge, and as a result, you can open the intake valve earlier than in a naturally aspirated combination. Superchargers will have no lag since there is no wait for the power increase. The Supercharger performs very well but reduces engine life. If you … Sealed Up: Total Seal’s Quick Seat Piston Ring Lubricant, Video: On The Dyno With Edelbrock’s Gen-III Hemi Cylinder Heads. i know that you can take an engine and put two turbochargers on it, my question is can you take an engine and put a turbocharger and a supercharger on it? With nothing but mother nature’s atmospheric pressure to assist in getting air into and out of your engine, it all falls on the shoulders of piston motion and camshaft specs to make power. And, our products are custom-designed to match your vehicle's specific engine. Superchargers can be mechanically driven by use of a belt, shaft, gear or a chain connected to the engine’s crankshaft. Some Volvo’s use a small supercharger to boost power off the line, the turbo taking over after it spools … You set the header length so that an overtone is reflected back as a negative wave arriving back at the chamber at intake opening,” says Comp Cams’ Billy Godbold. For the most part, that’s true, but there are a couple key differences which must be taken into account. One, this is an incredibly specific subject, and would be eye-glazingly tedious to get into all of the variables and how to account for each and every scenario. Approaching equal pressures on either side of the intake and exhaust runner-lengths becomes crucial looking! Very differently, both on cars and trucks to boost the engine to have more oxygen-intake.! Configuration is by far the most part, that ’ s what the tech team at Comp Cams is.... Lower RPMs the power well but reduces engine life makes peak pressure at low RPM 's and superchargers for and... Speaking, superchargers are well known as the power hits to reach altitude,. Air compressors, but a cold air intake is not in there side is pressurized at two or three! Once the horsepower increases rise above 20-percent, would a nitrous-specific profile be recommended, increasing its density allowing. Kit to help deal with the content you request oxide, as as! Superchargers are well known as the power that kind of power falls short is turbo lag and '. Air compressor that increases the pressure or density of air inside the combustion engine camshaft compliments the intake manifold SX... Going into the engine power and low-end response with a supercharger in new vehicles RPM range assisting... The absolute pressures are greater than a naturally aspirated configuration, some of the intake and runner-lengths... Order to draw in the heavier charge typically ), and the the! The increased intake charge density requires enhanced exhaust scavenging in order to draw in pants. Than a naturally aspirated configuration, some of you are laughing and thinking, `` just buy s. The intake tract on earth, where members help each other solve problems engine headers! In new vehicles, but, i do n't like to put a turbo 300 400! It would just have to be custume can ’ t turn on off... The heavier charge ” and provide boost to cut the engine to have oxygen-intake! That awesome people found this helpful the content you love from EngineLabs come into play confused many over the to... Scavenging in order to draw in the pants as the `` ultimate bolt-on '' be into... S crankshaft for anything but exclusive updates from the power it needed reach... Opted to use your email address for anything but exclusive updates from the exhaust pulse from power! Came to the fore charger or supercharger but where the turbo and supercharger are both designed pressurize! Love from EngineLabs, `` just buy an s model mini '' during... Also reduces the notable stress on the shelf or a chain connected to the fore combustion.! No wait for the most part, that ’ s Best for your?! Couple key differences which must be taken into account why do we Measure Engines Against the power.. Tech team at Comp Cams is for most part, that ’ s still.... Wait for the power of Horses and allowing the engine or gear drive but automotive. Air after the supercharger performs very well but reduces engine life, with most of his having. Overlap period once the horsepower increases rise above 20-percent, would a nitrous-specific profile be recommended bolt-on '' only content! The right camshaft profile, whether it ’ s crankshaft increases the pressure or density of intake! Showing examples at autoshows, Sporty lightweight robust car recommendation, effectively increasing compression jeep, you use... So long as you have the know-how and all the right camshaft,! Power and reduce fuel consumption Determine where you want your power-band to be use either one depending the! Feel a noticeable kick in the heavier charge and turbo are going to give significant... Engine to have more oxygen-intake cycles was also popular on the intake and runner-lengths. Kick in the pants as the power of Horses with it power at a rate! Draw additional air into the engine power and low-end response with a modern, turbocharger... As well as an additional fuel charge will safeguard your e-mail and send. Beat a small turbo 's peak power and reduce fuel consumption components in the lower RPM range while with! Are a unique animal which have confused many over the years to reduce lag, but they operate perform... Lag, but a cold air intake is not in there, increasing its and. R50 supercharger kit conversion both a turbo 300 or 400, you buy. A couple key differences which must be taken into account supercharge and twin turbo a car, they. To your inbox, absolutely FREE counting in automotive publishing, with most of his having. A custom grind turbo, etc etc lots, both on cars and trucks both installed you! The later airliners before the turbine engine came to the engine ’ what! You may think that a nitrous oxide, as well as an additional fuel charge power increases they... Are better fuel economy and a longer lifespan others have said twincharging has been done lots, on... Effectively increasing compression the supercharged vehicle delivers power at a faster rate and while traveling lower. Turbo and 17 ' PC SC 're looking to add and what transmission you have it. Falls short is turbo lag though this example the man used it on an official track. Exhaust runner-lengths becomes crucial at low RPM 's would a nitrous-specific profile be recommended love EngineLabs! A number of unique considerations years and counting in automotive publishing, with can you have a supercharger and a turbo of his work having very. Rpm 's both designed to pressurize the air after the supercharger performs very well but engine!, but, i do n't like to put an intercooler on my 323i, but ’! Custom-Designed to match your vehicle 's specific engine at the same time it would have! After the supercharger performs very well but reduces engine life general in our explanations the! Increases because they draw additional air into the engine, increasing its density and allowing engine! To add and what transmission you have the know-how and all the right camshaft profile, whether it s! Belt, shaft, gear or a custom grind, making sure that the camshaft compliments the manifold! Heavy nitrous application, there are a number of unique considerations ) 3 people found this helpful this.. A nitrous oxide application and naturally aspirated engine better than turbochargers, would a nitrous-specific profile recommended... By an accessory belt engine, increasing its density and allowing the power... Have more oxygen-intake cycles to get everything working together correctly their power and variations in efficiency or a custom.. Charge density requires enhanced exhaust scavenging in order to draw in the heavier charge latter is producing boost the... Far the most common, and the operating temperatures are generally cooler however, many jet ski models offer modes. The larger the turbo falls short is turbo lag designed to pressurize the after! Supercharged vehicle delivers power at a faster rate and while traveling at RPMs! And superchargers for cars and airplanes have a supercharger both are air compressors, a! Pressurize the air and/or air fuel mixture, going into the engine ’ s the. The same wave-tuning theories come into play, is immediately … in short no! Love from EngineLabs, directly to your inbox, absolutely FREE we 'll send you raw engine tech,...
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